Boston - Detroit

[Vlade Divac]

Jul 31, 2014 15:46:53 GMT -5 Alex English said:

Jul 31, 2014 15:15:03 GMT -5 Brian Scalabrine said:

The fact that people are actually considering rejecting this trade is beyond ridiculous.

You seem to do this thing a lot, where you act like your point of view is the only one a rational person could come to, and everyone else is clearly acting ridiculous. Not everyone is on board the 'Andre Drummond is the second coming of Jesus' hype train.

Look at this comparison of two players in their rookie years:

Player A: 22.5 mpg, 10.2 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.0 bpg, 58.6 FG%, 21.9 PER
Player B: 25.3 mpg, 11.1 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 0.6 bpg, 45.9 FG%, 18.3 PER

Who would you bet to go on to have a better career? One of those players might be a top 10 player in the league, while the other is a solid starter but might not even be a top 3 player on their own team. Player A is the solid starter - Kenneth Faried, and Player B might be a top 10 player on earth - Kevin Love.

They had fairly similar stats as rookies but their talent is drastically different. That comparison is a very real possibility for what could play out with Cousins and Drummond. Drummond is a great athlete and he can play his ass off every night but his skills are not even close to the level of Cousins. He can be Faried for the Nuggets, or DeAndre Jordan for the Clippers, or Tyson Chandler for the Mavs when the won. I'm not sure he can ever be a true superstar in the league and carry his team. It's possible, but he has a ton of work to do on his offensive skillset before it can happen. Cousins though, has a real shot at becoming a great player in the league. He can be the Blake Griffin, or Dirk Nowitzki in this comparison, and be a go to guy that a team can depend on.

I think Cousin's is a product of A. Sacramento B. the fact the NBA has become obsessed with small ball. In fact, I find it ironic you compare Cousins to Dirk or Blake when he's wayyyy too big and slow to ever fit that comparison. Honestly, I think he's a lot like Andrew Bynum.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Alex English First of all years in the league is much less important than actual age, at least in the point I was making so why don't we compare the seasons of Faried and Love at similar ages instead. How about when they were both 22 years old?

Player A: 20.2ppg 15.2rpg .4 bpg 47% fg Per 24.3
Player B: 10.2 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.0 bpg, 58.6 FG% Per 21.9

Can you spot the top 10 player and the nice rotational piece? We can do this through all of Faried's and Love's seasons in the NBA if you compare by age and it stays with this trend, its not close. At similar ages stats don't lie about the better player or his potential.

I am comparing Drummond and Cousins by age and at the same age which is the much much better way to compare players, Dre is actually superior to DeMarcus. For all we know DeMarcus could be vastly superior to Andre OR Andre could be vastly Superior to DeMarcus, as DMC will never develop the defensive talent the Andre had, its genetics and while DMC is a great offensive player he doesn't have the ups or wingspan to block and change shots like DRE.

Using good stats and good comparative methods its clear that DMC and DRE are very very similar at the same age and some might consider DRE even better than DMC at the same age. I'm not saying DRE will defiantly be better but to deny that he has reasonable potential to be as good if not better than DMC is foolish.

This trade could easily go either way and anyone who says that its defiantly going one way or another is kidding themselves.

[Glenn Robinson]

So you've gone from: "The fact that people are actually considering rejecting this trade is beyond ridiculous."

To: "This trade could easily go either way and anyone who says that its defiantly going one way or another is kidding themselves."


Hmmm

[Alex English]

Jul 31, 2014 16:05:46 GMT -5 Brian Scalabrine said:

Alex English First of all years in the league is much less important than actual age, at least in the point I was making so why don't we compare the seasons of Faried and Love at similar ages instead. How about when they were both 22 years old?

Player A: 20.2ppg 15.2rpg .4 bpg 47% fg Per 24.3
Player B: 10.2 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.0 bpg, 58.6 FG% Per 21.9

Can you spot the top 10 player and the nice rotational piece? We can do this through all of Faried's and Love's seasons in the NBA if you compare by age and it stays with this trend, its not close. At similar ages stats don't lie about the better player or his potential.

I am comparing Drummond and Cousins by age and at the same age which is the much much better way to compare players, Dre is actually superior to DeMarcus. For all we know DeMarcus could be vastly superior to Andre OR Andre could be vastly Superior to DeMarcus, as DMC will never develop the defensive talent the Andre had, its genetics and while DMC is a great offensive player he doesn't have the ups or wingspan to block and change shots like DRE.

Using good stats and good comparative methods its clear that DMC and DRE are very very similar at the same age and some might consider DRE even better than DMC at the same age. I'm not saying DRE will defiantly be better but to deny that he has reasonable potential to be as good if not better than DMC is foolish.

This trade could easily go either way and anyone who says that its defiantly going one way or another is kidding themselves.

You left out minutes per game, which is pretty important. Faried played 22.5 minutes while Love played 35.8 minutes. You can't compare raw stats when there is that much of a difference. 

What do you mean by very similar? Similar in potential? Because they are not similar players at all in terms of how they play.

I'm also not saying it will go one way or the other, I'm saying Cousins is the best piece of the two at the moment, and that it's possible Drummond doesn't improve much beyond where he is now because his lower skill level limits his potential.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Yeah I meant similar in potential and even in per 36 min Love crushes Faired in nearly every category, and this discounts that even at that point in his career he was great at 3's. Just how drummond might not progress, DMC could regress, what I'm saying is that this trade is not a black and white this side is better than that side, and really only those trades are the ones that should be rejected.

To reject this trade would create an impossible standard that would paralyze trading in this league.

[Coach Hines]

This league is already crippled by the ridiculous standards this committee has created. Of course there is going to be a best player in any trade. Blake is putting faith in Drummond's massive potential. What's wrong with that? Just because you as a gm wouldn't make this trade for your team doesn't mean you as a TC need to reject it. You're holding the league back. Just like in a court room, if there isn't sufficient evidence to convict someone, they walk free. In sports, if there isn't sufficient evidence to overturn a call, the call remains. Honestly, in this case, there is plenty of evidence to suggest Drummond WILL be a superstar.

[Coach Hines]

Your opinion is biased. Act as the TC that you are, and not as if that were your team.

[Alex English]

Jul 31, 2014 16:34:29 GMT -5 Coach Hines said:

This league is already crippled by the ridiculous standards this committee has created. Of course there is going to be a best player in any trade. Blake is putting faith in Drummond's massive potential. What's wrong with that? Just because you as a gm wouldn't make this trade for your team doesn't mean you as a TC need to reject it. You're holding the league back. Just like in a court room, if there isn't sufficient evidence to convict someone, they walk free. In sports, if there isn't sufficient evidence to overturn a call, the call remains. Honestly, in this case, there is plenty of evidence to suggest Drummond WILL be a superstar.

Jul 31, 2014 16:37:05 GMT -5 Coach Hines said:

Your opinion is biased. Act as the TC that you are, and not as if that were your team.

Are these directed at me? Or just said in general? Because I haven't rejected this trade and I was the one that first said the TC shouldn't decide as though they were personally the GM of the team in question. I said it in the trade that would have sent Cousins to Portland because I thought it should have gone through. I also think that trade was more even than this trade, which I am closer to rejecting, but not sure I will. Also like I said in my first post in the thread, my biggest problem is probably that Blake just seems to be making trades for the sake of it with no clear plan as this conflicts with some of his other moves.

[Blake Bowman]

Jul 31, 2014 16:51:39 GMT -5 Alex English said:

Jul 31, 2014 16:34:29 GMT -5 Coach Hines said:

This league is already crippled by the ridiculous standards this committee has created. Of course there is going to be a best player in any trade. Blake is putting faith in Drummond's massive potential. What's wrong with that? Just because you as a gm wouldn't make this trade for your team doesn't mean you as a TC need to reject it. You're holding the league back. Just like in a court room, if there isn't sufficient evidence to convict someone, they walk free. In sports, if there isn't sufficient evidence to overturn a call, the call remains. Honestly, in this case, there is plenty of evidence to suggest Drummond WILL be a superstar.

Jul 31, 2014 16:37:05 GMT -5 Coach Hines said:

Your opinion is biased. Act as the TC that you are, and not as if that were your team.

Are these directed at me? Or just said in general? Because I haven't rejected this trade and I was the one that first said the TC shouldn't decide as though they were personally the GM of the team in question. I said it in the trade that would have sent Cousins to Portland because I thought it should have gone through. I also think that trade was more even than this trade, which I am closer to rejecting, but not sure I will. Also like I said in my first post in the thread, my biggest problem is probably that Blake just seems to be making trades for the sake of it with no clear plan as this conflicts with some of his other moves.

I'm going hard now, but I like Drummond and the potential to land a top 2014 prospect for insurance.  I've got some plans... some pretty sexy plans.

[Coach Hines]

Can we get a decision?

[Tom Izzo]

Jul 31, 2014 16:12:15 GMT -5 Glenn Robinson said:

So you've gone from: "The fact that people are actually considering rejecting this trade is beyond ridiculous."

To: "This trade could easily go either way and anyone who says that its defiantly going one way or another is kidding themselves."


Hmmm

If I'm not mistaken, what he's saying is this trade should be accepted because it is fair and the winner could go either way. Meaning Detroit necessarily isn't the outright winner depending on Drummond's development and Atlanta's pick, plus other factors. Cousins could fall off, Drummond could soar, that Atlanta pick could be top 5...what then? All hypothetical, but all possible to some degree.

So he's saying anyone who says that it's definitely going one way or another (favoring one team or the other) is kidding themselves, and if people are actually considering rejecting this trade then that is beyond ridiculous. 

[Brian Scalabrine]

Exactly I never said one side would favor the other because this is a fair enough trade that it's impossible to tell right now. Because of that it's irresponsible and reckless to reject this trade.

[Coach Hines]

www.si.com/nba/2014/07/31/mason-plumlee-demarcus-cousins-usa-basketball

Interesting ey?

[Pinoy Sakuragi]

can you please just give your decision before you start to hate each other?

and please smile

[Pinoy Sakuragi]

Its better if we don't question the decision of the TC that much. I can pretty say that I benefited by one of their rejections. All of the five of them view a trade in different angles and that is great.