Phoenix Suns - Sacramento Kings Blockbuster

[Glenn Robinson]

Jul 7, 2014 18:25:39 GMT -5 Charles Barkley said:

Jul 7, 2014 17:31:22 GMT -5 Glenn Robinson said:

I think you are throwing Dragic in the garbage. Cousins is a nice player but Dragic isn't some peon. He was in talks for MVP most of the year last year. 28 is not that old for point guards like Dragic. He isn't someone who relies heavily on his athleticism where he is going to decline after the age of 30. Steve Nash was an MVP player well into his 30's. Who's to say Dragic can't do the same? I'm striking while the iron is hot on Dragic. Cousins has put up some good numbers on bad teams. He hasn't gotten them to the playoffs and is a headcase. In real life Sacramento has been shopping him in recent seasons. If he was so valuable like you make him out to be, he wouldn't even come up on the Kings trade block. 

As for the other pieces in the deal, Okafor is a huge expiring that helps out Sacramentos salary situation. McLemore is another player who is unproven and came off a pretty bad rookie season. Gerald Green arguably had his best season. Miles Plumlee came out of nowhere and had a great year as well. It's not like he's getting back crap players. These are guys who shocked everyone this year and almost got their team to the playoffs in a stacked West. 

I'm not throwing Dragic in the garbage, at least I am not trying to anyways. But, from a value stand point, Dragic would be more valuable if it wasn't a player option on the end of his deal. Cousins may be a head case, but that personality factor doesn't translate into the sim, unless of course, he does something to get him kicked off a team or drugs/alcohol type deal. And from what I remember, he doesn't have any of those issues. He's under contract for the next 5 years, guaranteed, no options or anything. From a value stand point, he is more valuable than Dragic, a lot more valuable in my opinion. He's not necessarily better, but a lot more valuable given the scarcity of big men in the league combined with his contract. I don't understand why salary is important to Sacremento. I would imagine it will be harder to attract free agents there with Dragic vs Cousins. If it is that important to him, his biggest salary snafu is Gay, and you don't need to move Cousins in order to move Gay. He would have ~15 million in space for next season by just moving Gay, which can easily land a big name free agent to pair with Cousins. Not to mention the other moveable contracts on the Kings.

Your opinion on value in terms of rating is taken. However, if we are going to be looking at the value of contracts and how it impacts a teams finances, at what point do we draw the line? Essentially you end up running the persons team for them and not let them make the moves to round out a roster that they feel will get them further in sim. 

[Clyde Drexler]

Big men are much harder to come by than guards.

I do find you guys are slightly underrating Dragic here, but the value really doesn't come close.

[James Kay]

Hmm. I get that Cousins contract makes him valuable, but he's a big man shooting under 50%. Plus, he averaged more turnovers than Dragic. A little silly for a big man to shoot worse and turn the ball over more than a PG/SG.

Meanwhile, Dragic just had a historic season. He shot above 50% from the field and over 40% from three.

The only players shooting above 48% while getting at least 19 points and 5 assists this past season : Lebron James, Kevin Durant, and Goran Dragic. And Dragic shot better from three than either of them.

Obviously Im not saying Dragic belongs in the same convo as Durant and LBJ, but I really think youre selling him short.


This was only his second season as a starter and he's shown he just hasnt been given the right opportunities in the past. He was 15th in Win Shares, and 16th in PER. That strongly indicates he's better than the best player on half of the teams in the NBA. He's clearly a premiere player and a star. 

Just give Dragic his due.

[Clyde Drexler]

Jul 7, 2014 18:49:26 GMT -5 James Kay said:

Hmm. I get that Cousins contract makes him valuable, but he's a big man shooting under 50%. Plus, he averaged more turnovers than Dragic. A little silly for a big man to shoot worse and turn the ball over more than a PG/SG.

Meanwhile, Dragic just had a historic season. He shot above 50% from the field and over 40% from three.

The only players shooting above 48% while getting at least 19 points and 5 assists this past season : Lebron James, Kevin Durant, and Goran Dragic. And Dragic shot better from three than either of them.

Obviously Im not saying Dragic belongs in the same convo as Durant and LBJ, but I really think youre selling him short.


This was only his second season as a starter and he's shown he just hasnt been given the right opportunities in the past. He was 15th in Win Shares, and 16th in PER. That strongly indicates he's better than the best player on half of the teams in the NBA. He's clearly a premiere player and a star. 

Just give Dragic his due.

I do really like Goran, he had a tremendous year for a team that was supposed to have one of the worst records. He's at a somewhat odd age at 28, and in our league guards come a dime a dozen and quality big men are hard to find.

I'm not knocking Goran as a player, but looking more at the fact that having a 23 year old center that is already top 5 at his position, already rated 87, and who is going to hopefully continue to develop is a lot better to have. Everyone has their own personal opinions and preferences though!

[Charles Barkley]

Jul 7, 2014 18:31:05 GMT -5 Glenn Robinson said:

Jul 7, 2014 18:25:39 GMT -5 Charles Barkley said:

I'm not throwing Dragic in the garbage, at least I am not trying to anyways. But, from a value stand point, Dragic would be more valuable if it wasn't a player option on the end of his deal. Cousins may be a head case, but that personality factor doesn't translate into the sim, unless of course, he does something to get him kicked off a team or drugs/alcohol type deal. And from what I remember, he doesn't have any of those issues. He's under contract for the next 5 years, guaranteed, no options or anything. From a value stand point, he is more valuable than Dragic, a lot more valuable in my opinion. He's not necessarily better, but a lot more valuable given the scarcity of big men in the league combined with his contract. I don't understand why salary is important to Sacremento. I would imagine it will be harder to attract free agents there with Dragic vs Cousins. If it is that important to him, his biggest salary snafu is Gay, and you don't need to move Cousins in order to move Gay. He would have ~15 million in space for next season by just moving Gay, which can easily land a big name free agent to pair with Cousins. Not to mention the other moveable contracts on the Kings.

Your opinion on value in terms of rating is taken. However, if we are going to be looking at the value of contracts and how it impacts a teams finances, at what point do we draw the line? Essentially you end up running the persons team for them and not let them make the moves to round out a roster that they feel will get them further in sim. 

I don't know where we draw that line Glenn. Thankfully, I am not in the position to draw the line. Normally, I don't speak out on trades because my opinion shouldn't really count for anything, however, I just felt that in this deal, the value was swayed very heavily to one side. Cousins, Gay, and McLemore are all valuable. OKafor and Barbosa are valuable for the purpose of expiring contracts, and maybe, to some extent, OKafor is more valuable because of the time it will take for his rating to represent his real life production.

I'm not trying to run people's teams for them, and I don't get to have a vote in the matter of what trades go through, so I don't really influence the decision making process. I think that there is a big difference between value and ability (i.e. Cousins is more valuable but Dragic is probably better right now). I would have to imagine that the Kings GM didn't field many offers for Cousins, as he has only been GM for about 24 hours (unless he worked pretty damn hard at it) and took what he felt was a "decent" offer. I understand some people have differing opinions on players and how to build their team, but I just felt the trade was extremely lop sided, which is more of a credit to your GMing skills Glenn than a slight on the Kings. Where that line is drawn is unknown to me, but I think this trade was a combination of impatience, under valuing players (not ability but value), and GMing skills per se.

[Pinoy Sakuragi]

maybe my vision with that trade is hard to understand so we will try to revise it.

[James Kay]

Jul 7, 2014 19:05:36 GMT -5 Clyde Drexler said:

Jul 7, 2014 18:49:26 GMT -5 James Kay said:

Hmm. I get that Cousins contract makes him valuable, but he's a big man shooting under 50%. Plus, he averaged more turnovers than Dragic. A little silly for a big man to shoot worse and turn the ball over more than a PG/SG.

Meanwhile, Dragic just had a historic season. He shot above 50% from the field and over 40% from three.

The only players shooting above 48% while getting at least 19 points and 5 assists this past season : Lebron James, Kevin Durant, and Goran Dragic. And Dragic shot better from three than either of them.

Obviously Im not saying Dragic belongs in the same convo as Durant and LBJ, but I really think youre selling him short.


This was only his second season as a starter and he's shown he just hasnt been given the right opportunities in the past. He was 15th in Win Shares, and 16th in PER. That strongly indicates he's better than the best player on half of the teams in the NBA. He's clearly a premiere player and a star. 

Just give Dragic his due.

I do really like Goran, he had a tremendous year for a team that was supposed to have one of the worst records. He's at a somewhat odd age at 28, and in our league guards come a dime a dozen and quality big men are hard to find.

I'm not knocking Goran as a player, but looking more at the fact that having a 23 year old center that is already top 5 at his position, already rated 87, and who is going to hopefully continue to develop is a lot better to have. Everyone has their own personal opinions and preferences though!

His age isnt really a factor for his game style IMO.

And top 5 for Boogie?

D12, Al Jeff, Noah, M. Gasol, Horford, Brook Lopez, Bosh, Hibbert, Duncan.. I guess it depends on who you call a C and who you call a PF. I forget how shallow the C position is sometimes lol, wow. I guess top 5 isnt that much of a stretch but its not definite. That 87 rating is a bit high imo as well.

[Pinoy Sakuragi]

can I ask the Trade Committee if what should be done to the trade to be accepted?

[Troy Bolton]

WTH. ill give you anyone not named dwight or harden for cousins!!!!